vendredi, mars 12, 1999 hammatime@hotmail.com says:LALALA hammatime@hotmail.com says: how abt music? summatime@hotmail.com says: ooh, that one a bit harder!!! summatime@hotmail.com says: i try to be more aware summatime@hotmail.com says: and now i'm brushing up on church music history summatime@hotmail.com says: which, sad to say, is eroding my confidence in newer christian songs summatime@hotmail.com says: but i limit my diet by just trying not to bother so much with the top of the charts summatime@hotmail.com says: and keeping a good chrsitian list of songs to listen to on the iPod hammatime@hotmail.com says: newer christian songs like? summatime@hotmail.com says: just in general summatime@hotmail.com says: it's not that they're bad summatime@hotmail.com says: just that they pale in comparison hammatime@hotmail.com says: sure, they're expressions of what God is doing in the church now. isn't tt impt? hammatime@hotmail.com says: n all tt talk abt "singing a new song" in Psalms has got to hv some relevance summatime@hotmail.com says: "expressions of what God is doing in the church now" is interpretation, which is limited by man (who does it, is his theology sound, does he know God?) which is the issue for me summatime@hotmail.com says: compare an old chestnut, "here i am to worship" vs "great is thy faithfulness" summatime@hotmail.com says: "i could sing of your love forever" vs "a mighty fortress is our God" summatime@hotmail.com says: you could accuse me of cherry picking, which i suppose I am partially guilty of,but i think it's hard to deny the newer types of songs are a bit God-lite hammatime@hotmail.com says: in terms of language yes hammatime@hotmail.com says: but tts cos we dun talk like tt anymore either hammatime@hotmail.com says: n it prob wldn't work in our modern society hammatime@hotmail.com says: but ok take for instance...the surge of new songs talking abt justice hammatime@hotmail.com says: tt wasn't so common in the past summatime@hotmail.com says: hmm hammatime@hotmail.com says: isnt' tt an impt move of God? summatime@hotmail.com says: e.g.? hammatime@hotmail.com says: the entire CompassionArt album hammatime@hotmail.com says: the last few Hillsong United albums. hammatime@hotmail.com says: Tim Hughes- God of Justice hammatime@hotmail.com says: Delirious' latest album too summatime@hotmail.com says: give me a single song so i can look for lyrics hammatime@hotmail.com says: check out God of Justice first hammatime@hotmail.com says: "King of the broken"- CompassionArt hammatime@hotmail.com says: "With Everything"- Hillsong summatime@hotmail.com says: *makes a face* summatime@hotmail.com says: we're gonna have to disagree, i'm afraid summatime@hotmail.com says: as with all our other conversations about music summatime@hotmail.com says: it's not that the newer songs are BAD summatime@hotmail.com says: it's just that there are other bigger things to sing about hammatime@hotmail.com says: e.g? summatime@hotmail.com says: God of Justice - - well, technically a one sided view of God... you cannot see God's justice without grace - justice would condemn us, grace saves us "God of Justice, Saviour to all, Came to rescue the weak and the poor" - well... *makes face again* technically He chooses who gets his mercy summatime@hotmail.com says: move us to action yes- but to what end? summatime@hotmail.com says: for justice? to stand beside the broken? hammatime@hotmail.com says: warrau u dissect until like dat. no chance liao summatime@hotmail.com says: the injunction in the song is "to act justly everyday, loving mercy in everyway" summatime@hotmail.com says: if this is a song about sharing God's love, sharing Jesus' love, where is the injuction to the listener to go forth and spread the gospel? summatime@hotmail.com says: its not really that they're bad... it's just that it leaves too much for the listener to fill in summatime@hotmail.com says: the implied is - to go out and share the gospel hammatime@hotmail.com says: i think if u study this whole justice movement right....its like the current songwriters r filling in the gaps hammatime@hotmail.com says: we've always been teaching church mbers the imptce of evangelising summatime@hotmail.com says: uhm, i actually have... hammatime@hotmail.com says: BUT the church hasn't been doing much to serve the poor n needy summatime@hotmail.com says: depends on which church hammatime@hotmail.com says: so its to balance how we share the gospel. in both word n deed. hammatime@hotmail.com says: i mean the MAGNITUDE OF IT. hammatime@hotmail.com says: its really getting much bigger now summatime@hotmail.com says: okay, before go further, i have to say that I hold a very conservative stance hammatime@hotmail.com says: n these songwriters r definitely not just abt doing humanitarian work lah summatime@hotmail.com says: like, VERY conservative. hammatime@hotmail.com says: the end is to share the gospel summatime@hotmail.com says: i don't have an issue with the songwriters and what they do summatime@hotmail.com says: i just think that they need to be more aware of how they are impacting people now (1) how they need to connect with today's generation, (2) how they write for todya's generation, (3) without realising that today's generation is teetering on the edge of apostasy summatime@hotmail.com says: many churches today have people who don't think... they listen and nod, but Ravi Zacharias has an urgent call - "Let My People Think!"... and i think it's not unfounded... hammatime@hotmail.com says: i agree with wot u say actually hammatime@hotmail.com says: then there is also the issue of who is pastoring n mentoring these songwriters? summatime@hotmail.com says: yes, that's also impt hammatime@hotmail.com says: does tt mean we shld limit songwriting to a very select few? summatime@hotmail.com says: nope summatime@hotmail.com says: it just boils down to keeping our guard up hammatime@hotmail.com says: shld we not sing the new songs anymore cos they're not strong as the hymns? summatime@hotmail.com says: protecting christian education jealously summatime@hotmail.com says: no no no summatime@hotmail.com says: haiz, you missed my pt summatime@hotmail.com says: not that new songs are bad summatime@hotmail.com says: just that we need more education summatime@hotmail.com says: more grace hammatime@hotmail.com says: true summatime@hotmail.com says: we need to build up songwriters who can write songs which are as strong as or better than the hymns hammatime@hotmail.com says: tts gd summatime@hotmail.com says: by all means, let's sing a new song unto God summatime@hotmail.com says: but let's not sing children's songs hammatime@hotmail.com says: its gotta start from the pulpit though summatime@hotmail.com says: nope, it's gotta start at home. summatime@hotmail.com says: pulpit is too late... hammatime@hotmail.com says: home as in self--study of the bible? summatime@hotmail.com says: nope summatime@hotmail.com says: as in biblical families summatime@hotmail.com says: fathers as spiritual heads of the households summatime@hotmail.com says: that sort of thing summatime@hotmail.com says: idealistic, but we're talking about ideals here hammatime@hotmail.com says: oh yeah summatime@hotmail.com says: http://www.boundlessline.org/2009/02/more-contemporary-praise-music-frustrations.html http://online.worldmag.com/2009/02/13/christian-music-and-other-sins/ hammatime@hotmail.com says: i agree with that hammatime@hotmail.com says: tts gonna take a lot summatime@hotmail.com says: you'd prob agree with these two articles on praise music too hammatime@hotmail.com says: i dun agree with the first hammatime@hotmail.com says: i think it shld be a mix of corporate n indiv songs hammatime@hotmail.com says: i mean look at the Pslams summatime@hotmail.com says: looking summatime@hotmail.com says: what about it hammatime@hotmail.com says: David used a lot of 'me' references wot summatime@hotmail.com says: uhm summatime@hotmail.com says: check again the "me" is always balanced with a trait of God hammatime@hotmail.com says: n u find tt is not reflected in the songs we sing? hammatime@hotmail.com says: the verse of "Here I am" talks abt the traits of God hammatime@hotmail.com says: the chorus is our response summatime@hotmail.com says: haiz, i'm not saying ALL of the newer songs hammatime@hotmail.com says: i think its how the worship leader crafts the set summatime@hotmail.com says: well, that too hammatime@hotmail.com says: hv a balance of songs tt help the individual connect to God, n those tt r more corporate hammatime@hotmail.com says: TIm Hughes taught on tt in a conference actually summatime@hotmail.com says: but the focus is on manipulating the individual to connect to God summatime@hotmail.com says: "helping" summatime@hotmail.com says: (mind you, this is ME, i don't represent anything/anyone else) hammatime@hotmail.com says: i dun understd summatime@hotmail.com says: the focus is on helping the indiv to connect to God hammatime@hotmail.com says: as opposed to? summatime@hotmail.com says: the point of the praise set is to praise God!!! summatime@hotmail.com says: not the individual! hammatime@hotmail.com says: we're not praising the indiv wot. haha summatime@hotmail.com says: and it's not worship leader! summatime@hotmail.com says: it's just the song leader hammatime@hotmail.com says: i'm not sure i get u summatime@hotmail.com says: worship is the whole service! summatime@hotmail.com says: our LIFE is worship summatime@hotmail.com says: i have a huge issue with this whole "worship leader" term hammatime@hotmail.com says: ok summatime@hotmail.com says: (not everyone has, this is just me) hammatime@hotmail.com says: u're not the first summatime@hotmail.com says: i think words are v import hammatime@hotmail.com says: okie hammatime@hotmail.com says: but i dun understand the earlier apart abt helping the indiv? summatime@hotmail.com says: music is manipulative summatime@hotmail.com says: it can give an experience summatime@hotmail.com says: it WILL give an experience if crafted well hammatime@hotmail.com says: uh huh summatime@hotmail.com says: the point of praise is not experiential summatime@hotmail.com says: experience is individual summatime@hotmail.com says: the focus has become too much on "having a good "worship" session" summatime@hotmail.com says: as opposed to praising God summatime@hotmail.com says: the two are so conflated that we are now affected when the music sucks summatime@hotmail.com says: or when the praise set is "not crafted well" hammatime@hotmail.com says: hmm.... summatime@hotmail.com says: we get annoyed hammatime@hotmail.com says: depends on the how the church teaches it summatime@hotmail.com says: and then we think to ourselves, oh man, that wasn't a good time hammatime@hotmail.com says: i dun think we hv issue in churches tt hv mature, solid teaching summatime@hotmail.com says: the whole ethos of praise and worship is governed by the experience that the individual has hammatime@hotmail.com says: i think tts quite a blanket statement summatime@hotmail.com says: yes, i am overstating it a bit summatime@hotmail.com says: but you take my pt hammatime@hotmail.com says: yes, its happened in the past summatime@hotmail.com says: while it's true that you don't have that sort of issue in churches with good teaching hammatime@hotmail.com says: prob still does in super charismatic churches summatime@hotmail.com says: but how many people in churches are THAT serious about their faith hammatime@hotmail.com says: but i see the value in creating a worship atmsophere tt allows pple to release themselves in worship hammatime@hotmail.com says: sometims pple do need help. hammatime@hotmail.com says: its a practical issue hammatime@hotmail.com says: n the creative arts team's role is to lovingly shine the spotlight on God hammatime@hotmail.com says: n encourge them to worship Him despite their circumstances hammatime@hotmail.com says: or emotions summatime@hotmail.com says: nope, i will definitely have an issue with the focus on people hammatime@hotmail.com says: but u see, u can be that song ldr praising God with all u've got on Sun...n ur pple just aren't with u hammatime@hotmail.com says: cos u've failed to connect with them. u've lost them summatime@hotmail.com says: that is NOT your job summatime@hotmail.com says: your job is to lead them to praise God hammatime@hotmail.com says: i see it as, "let's go get them, n together let's praise God" summatime@hotmail.com says: not to "connet with them" hammatime@hotmail.com says: i disagree summatime@hotmail.com says: ok hammatime@hotmail.com says: if i'm oblivious to wot they're thinking/feeling....i've not fulfilled my role completely hammatime@hotmail.com says: leading them, n worshipping GOd at the same time is not separate summatime@hotmail.com says: no it definitely isn't hammatime@hotmail.com says: n i think for most of us, we're happiest when the congre doesn't need us to encourage them anymore. hammatime@hotmail.com says: they're there on their own hammatime@hotmail.com says: but it takes time hammatime@hotmail.com says: its a practical issue summatime@hotmail.com says: i'm just not comfortable with the level of "craft", as you put it, that is put into trying to make people get into the mood to worship hammatime@hotmail.com says: we literally had to teach our congre to worship God despite feeling shit hammatime@hotmail.com says: i guess see the heart behind it hammatime@hotmail.com says: we're not here to "manipulate" summatime@hotmail.com says: see the heart and see the mind as well hammatime@hotmail.com says: both. dun nit pick on my words lah summatime@hotmail.com says: what informs your worldview summatime@hotmail.com says: i'm not. hammatime@hotmail.com says: we're doing this because we love God, n we want pple to do the same summatime@hotmail.com says: you can be well-intentioned and sincere, but sincerely wrong hammatime@hotmail.com says: yes i'm sure summatime@hotmail.com says: and yes, heart yes hammatime@hotmail.com says: so how do u suggest tt things be done summatime@hotmail.com says: careful examination of every song that you sing summatime@hotmail.com says: more education of worship leaders summatime@hotmail.com says: more discerning leaders who long after God's heart summatime@hotmail.com says: in the context of the music min, more leaders will will dare to say - no, he can't lead worship despite being John Mayer/Jason Mraz, he's not right with God hammatime@hotmail.com says: all gd points summatime@hotmail.com says: i DO think it's harder in the music ministry though summatime@hotmail.com says: because of the ensemble "cast", because of the musical and artistic temperaments, because of differing levels of talent, and because hey, everybody wants a good show summatime@hotmail.com says: music is naturally performative hammatime@hotmail.com says: i think we need more leaders who know how to lead creative arts teams summatime@hotmail.com says: but it is because there are so many pitfalls that i think we need to ensure we check ourselves very, very carefully hammatime@hotmail.com says: tt type of leadership is sore lacking summatime@hotmail.com says: hahaha... i think christianleadership is lacking!!! summatime@hotmail.com says: in general hammatime@hotmail.com says: normal pastors dunno how to lead creative types. tts why got all these attitude probs summatime@hotmail.com says: hahaha! yah hammatime@hotmail.com says: if artists dun find a healthy source of release, n u dunno how to give them a right balance of space n guidance..they will rebel against u summatime@hotmail.com says: we have this pastor in the chi svc now... he's here for 3 year term, quite talented musically, but WOAH, I haven't heard ANYONE say anything gd about him! hammatime@hotmail.com says: artists r the hardest to lead summatime@hotmail.com says: he's got zero people skills! so he teaches bass/drums/guitar... but now a lot of people are just hearing him, no longer listening... quite bad! hammatime@hotmail.com says: wot a waste summatime@hotmail.com says: yes, you're right, artists are pretty difficult summatime@hotmail.com says: the ensemble is always abalance hammatime@hotmail.com says: they're very....'misunderstood' hammatime@hotmail.com says: haha summatime@hotmail.com says: hahahaha hammatime@hotmail.com says: i think the American n Australian churches r doing better in leading artists summatime@hotmail.com says: i have this excellent book by Kevin DeYoung, Ted Kluck, and David F. Wells, "Why We're Not Emergent" summatime@hotmail.com says: in an anecdote within it, there was an exchange narrated between Kevin and a famous guitarist summatime@hotmail.com says: and the guitarist said - "in the music scene, it's cool to search for God. It's just not cool to find him." hammatime@hotmail.com says: hahah hammatime@hotmail.com says: anyway, gd points u raised hammatime@hotmail.com says: but my eyes cannot open liao summatime@hotmail.com says: heh hammatime@hotmail.com says: gonna zonk out summatime@hotmail.com says: thanks for the debate summatime@hotmail.com says: helped to shape some thoughts i had summatime@hotmail.com says: night!!! hammatime@hotmail.com says: why does it hv to be debate hammatime@hotmail.com says: ?? hammatime@hotmail.com says: dialogue lah. summatime@hotmail.com says: it was a debate. summatime@hotmail.com says: dialogue is debate hammatime@hotmail.com says: discussion? summatime@hotmail.com says: potato potatoe summatime@hotmail.com says: byebye la!! hammatime@hotmail.com says: i'm not fighting with u wot. why debate summatime@hotmail.com says: you are! hammatime@hotmail.com says: ahh hammatime@hotmail.com says: i'm not. u always think i am summatime@hotmail.com says: (oh man.) hammatime@hotmail.com says: i just wanna discuss summatime@hotmail.com says: i think discussions are debates hammatime@hotmail.com says: i dun think so hammatime@hotmail.com says: i just wanna know where u're coming from summatime@hotmail.com says: and vice versa hammatime@hotmail.com says: yeah tts all summatime@hotmail.com says: nope,that's a monologue hammatime@hotmail.com says: i didn't come in here to win summatime@hotmail.com says: debate doesn't have to be about winning/losing hammatime@hotmail.com says: ok ok summatime@hotmail.com says: hahaha summatime@hotmail.com says: okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy hammatime@hotmail.com says: we're debating abt the term debate hammatime@hotmail.com says: winner summatime@hotmail.com says: we FAIL. hammatime@hotmail.com says: HAHAHAH hammatime@hotmail.com says: -20 summatime@hotmail.com says: at this gdnight thing hammatime@hotmail.com says: ntie nite!!! summatime@hotmail.com says: nigth summatime@hotmail.com says: (FAIL spelling too.) hammatime@hotmail.com says: yah both [Church music: a conversation] |
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Booth's T-Shirts: knight in shining fbi standard-issue body armour 1x10 The Woman At The AirportWhite t-shirt, no caption, graphic: bird dropping firebombs on a skull, full colour Black (or dark blue) t-shirt, caption: (white) "Give Me My Space", no graphic Grey t-shirt, caption: (white) Japanese kanji, graphic: two abstract eyes and a mouth (Appearance 1) 1x12 The Superhero In The Alley Red bowling shirt. Front: "Booth" on left breast lapel. Back: caption: "Starlite Match Club, Reno", graphic: stylised stars. 1x22 The Woman In Limbo Black t-shirt, no caption, graphic: a bunch of cards (a full hand?) 2x01 The Titan On The Tracks Black t-shirt, caption: (white) "Las Vegas", graphic: unidentified Green t-shirt, caption: (yellow) (partial) "..rty ... P..." 2x02 The Mother And Child In The Bay Black t-shirt, caption: (white) "Mad Dog", graphic: unidentified 2x03 The Boy In The Shroud Black t-shirt, caption: (white) "Super Villain", no graphic 2x04 The Blonde In The Game Blue t-shirt, caption: (white) "Fighting Dragon", graphic: stylised dragon Maroon t-shirt, caption: (white) "...riffin, Est 1970, Manhattan", graphic: unidentified Dark blue t-shirt, caption: (white) mostly unidentified "Noise Ilberation Sonone, Oberation Sonors, Poczta ..." , graphic: circular motif, with what looks like an upside down bat in the centre of the circle Dark grey t-shirt, caption: (red), unidentified, no graphic Grey t-shirt, caption: (white) Japanese kanji, graphic: two abstract eyes and a mouth (Appearance 2) 2x06 The Girl In Suite 2103 Black t-shirt, caption: (white) "..kiro", no graphic Black t-shirt, no caption, graphic: white circle with "23" in it, on left breast lapel 2x07 The Girl With The Curl Black t-shirt, caption: (pink) unidentified, graphic: New York skyline (?) Black t-shirt, caption: unidentified, graphic: unidentified (back of shirt) 2x08 The Woman in the Sane Black t-shirt: caption: (black and red) "Classic Motor Exhibition... Tucker", graphic: stylised car Black t-shirt: caption: (yellow, red and white) "Guys and Dolls Jr.", graphic: two dice Black t-shirt: caption: "Las Vegas", graphic: unidentified 2x09 Aliens in a Spaceship Black t-shirt: caption: "Grease", graphic: small, unidentified (Appearance 1) 2x11 Judas on a Pole Black t-shirt: caption: "1986 Hustle", graphic: sumo wrestler Black t-shirt: caption: "Texas Hold'em - Strip Poker: Down and Dirty", graphic: silhouette of woman lying down in a sexy, come-hither pose Black t-shirt: caption: "... Fun Society", no graphic Black t-shirt: caption: "... countdown?", graphic: unidentified 2x12 The Man In The Call Black t-shirt: caption: "Gonkright and Sons", graphic: two bottles/container (Appearance 1) Black t-shirt: caption: "..eet for L.., ..eet for G..", no graphic 2x16 The Boneless Bride In The River Black t-shirt: caption: "Grease", graphic: small, unidentified (Appearance 2) 2x18 The Killer In The Concrete Black t-shirt: caption: "...e sup...", no graphic 2x19 Spaceman in the Crater Teal t-shirt: caption: unidentified, graphic: unidentified 2x20 The Glowing Bones In The Old Stone House Dark brown t-shirt: caption: Killer, no graphic Black t-shirt: caption: "Gonkright and Sons", graphic: two bottles/container (Appearance 2) Black t-shirt: caption: "Don't Give Up", graphic: unidentified 2x21 Stargazer in a Puddle Black t-shirt: caption: unidentified , graphic: unidentified 3x01 The Widow's Son in the Windshield Black t-shirt: Dark grey t-shirt: caption: unidentified, graphic: unidentified (faded) Dark grey t-shirt: caption "..ptist can'...", no graphic 3x02 The Soccer Mom In The Minivan Brown t-shirt: no caption, graphic: two ferris wheels (?) 3x03 Death In The Saddle Dark grey t-shirt: caption: unidentified, graphic: unidentified (faded) Dark grey t-shirt: caption: "...boys...", graphic: unidentified (faded) 3x04 The Secret In The Soil Maroon t-shirt, caption: (black) unidentified, graphic: unidentified Black t-shirt, caption: "SN...", graphic: stylised bird Blue t-shirt, caption: "Tenth Avenue Cowboy", graphic: circular line around caption 3x05 The Mummy In The Maze Black t-shirt: caption: "Gonkright and Sons", graphic: two bottles/container (Appearance 3) 3x07 Boy in the Time Capsule Black t-shirt: caption: "Band...", graphic: hot wheel and flames 3x08 Knight on the Grid Black t-shirt: caption: "Blowrider...", graphic: bicycle (or motorbike) Black t-shirt: caption: "...last..., graphic: unidentified Black t-shirt: caption: "Minister, Poker Junkie Club", graphic: five card spread 3x11 Man In The Mud Maroon t-shirt, caption: (black) unidentified, graphic: roulette wheel (?) Black t-shirt, caption: (white) "Metal", graphic: none [Booth's T-Shirts: knight in shining fbi standard-issue body armour] |
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